The Job Roller Coaster (AKA I have no idea what I'm doing!)

"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori) 11/07/2019 at 13:23 • Filed to: Joblopnik

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So today has been emotionally exhausting, so I figured I’d turn to my favorite (read: only) blog to tell the tale and see if I can untangle this mess.

TL;DR on my job situation is I got laid off at the end of August. It was unexpected and frankly, very jarring. Financially it was fine, mind you, I have a healthy savings, got a decent severance, and unemployment benefits are enough to pay the rent and COBRA. (An experience I would like to write about at when I’m not freaking out.)

Also relevant to this story is in the last couple years my career ambition has, more or less, evaporated. As long as my salary is going up, I can do what I want outside of work, and I’m building my resume, I don’t give a fuck what I’m doing.

So.

Initially I interviewed with a company that’d been hounding me for a long time. Like... years. Let’s call them Company A. I did two rounds of interviews with them, at the end of which the VP (hiring manager) was referring to me like I worked there already. Furthermore I am/was extremely qualified for the position in many aspects and the money they were offering was very appealing.

Neat.

Three weeks later I got the call that they’d decided to go with another candidate.

Bullshit.

But I’m used to it. I’ve held four jobs in my career and all but the last one were hard fought to get, so I’m used to getting my hopes up only to see everything fall apart at the last minute. It is sort of my thing.

With that all falling apart, I accept to interview with Company B. I’d seen their job listings but didn’t really want to apply because I didn’t like their product very much, they’re foreign owned, and recently pulled out of and then re-inserted (giggity) the US market.

While I was waiting on that interview, I do a shout out on Twitter that I need a damn job. I am semi-well known in a very specific tech community for the work that I do, so the signal boost on my tweet quickly exploded, which I’ve never had happen before.

Not “viral” by any means, but certainly more than my usual 50 views and 1 click. Similarly my website traffic exploded.

Ok, I say all that to say from that tweet I got maybe 4-5 good job leads. One of them was a cryptic message from a guy who works for a very large company, lets call them Company C.

He wanted to hire me!

I talk with Company C guy for a couple hours and he lays it all out very clearly and concisely, no BS. He basically says it’ll take about a week to get my a tentative offer and maybe another 4-6 months to bring me on. Also the pay and vacation are going to be less than I’d make at Company B. Also I need a security clearance, which I do not currently have and can be a looooooong process, if I get one at all.

Cool. Cool. Cool.

BUT the job is amazing . It represents a huge shift in my career from Oil and Gas to something that I’d probably actually be good at and am very interested in doing, but never though I’d have the opportunity. He also knows I have 0 experience performing the actual job functions required, but my knowledge of other stuff is what they’re hiring me for. Essentially it goes from work-a-day water treading to a doing something completely different and exciting in a completely different and exciting field.

Meanwhile Company B makes a compelling offer and gives me a week to decide. That was this Monday. This is Thursday.

I spoke with Company C on Monday to try and get some concrete timelines on hiring and compensation, and he said he’d get back to me ASAP.

Meanwhile the recruiter for Company B is calling me daily asking for updates. I’m concerned that Company B is going to pull the offer because... well that is what I’d do if a candidate was waffling this much.

Wednesday evening rolls around and I haven’t heard from Company C, so I make a decision.

As much as I’d love to work for Company C, I realized it represents a huge risk and I’m not really one for taking risks. What if I get there and they realize I’m an idiot? What if find out I skipped school in 7th grade to go play video games and I can’t get a clearance? (Not a thing that actually happened) What if I can’t cut it? I can’t sit around and wait for months and months not getting paid! Also, what if something gets delayed and I’m unemployed for another four months?

Ok, so I schedule an acceptance email for Company B to go out Thursday (today) morning at 8AM.

And it does.

The recruiter calls me and confirms, sends me over the pre-employment paperwork, and I return it, filled out, immediately. I lay down to go back to bed (hey I’m unemployed here!) and get an email.

From Company C.

With an offer.

And a 3-5 week estimated start time.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

What? How? Why?

I’ve never had this happen before!

Ugh ok. Even though I’d mentally thrown this job into the icy waters, apparently it didn’t die after all and even though I’d agreed to marry someone else, I have decide if I... you know that metaphor is tiresome.

Anyway, after internally screaming for several weeks minutes, I call the recruiter for Company B and let her know I need to rescind my acceptance. She is, somewhat understandably, pissed and says she’ll let Company B know.

Ok. Bed time again?

I get a call from the recruiter, who apparently is refusing to let me sleep in until 10AM like a normal person. What if they offer me more money? Like... another $5k?

No. I’ve got to stick to me guns.

Ok... well apparently Company B really wants me (which is nice) so... how about I think on it.

Fine.

So where I’m at

I generally don’t like to talk about money, but when it comes down to it the hard facts are Company B is offering $18,000 more per year, plus another week or so of vacation.

That is a lot of car parts and time to install them...

Also I just found out one of my former employees worked there for a less than a year, but as it turns out he quit because it was boring. I literally don’t know what to make of that. Getting paid to sit at a computer and work on my own stuff? I can’t tell if that would be awesome, or horrible. Both, probably.

Meanwhile Company C sounds like a chance of a lifetime to make a huge career switch into role that I’ve always been fascinated with but never thought I’d be qualified for (I’m not) and is willing to accept my technical deficiencies.

I have until the end of the day to decide.

Actually, that’s not true. I’ve decided to go with Company C but it huuuuuuurts to take that level of risk and throw away that much money.

But I already make/made plenty and this only represents a minor pay cut (~$2k) from what I was making at the old job.

Thank you for listening to Ted Talk endless rambling. Sometimes typing it all out helps. Not this time, but sometimes.

Here is Dog A being forced into pretending he is a lap dog. (Didn’t seem to mind.)

B_dol > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:29

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Not sure what your tolerance for total compensation (salary, bonus, benefits, vacation, etc.) is, but if you aren’t in the sunset of your career I would definitely go towards gig C - the more interesting and challenging role. Staying in my comfort zone has never benefited my career long term.

Also - mention the other offer to company C and see if they don’t boost there offer somewhat.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > B_dol 11/07/2019 at 13:37

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Also a good point. I’m frimly early-mid career.

Company C is the type place where you get what you get.  Like the CarMax of employers, so that isn’t really an option.

DipodomysDeserti > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:42

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You tech guys have a very different version of being laid off than I’ve experienced.

benjrblant > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:45

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Sounds like C is a good choice. Unless you’re hard pressed for more money at this point, taking the better experience/career option seems a solid choice.

RacinBob > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:48

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Best people, best challenge, best use of your time. Good luck

Stephen Rivers > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:50

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Dude. As a guy working his tail off to get into a whole new facet of the automotive world, I totally applaud you going for the more interesting job. I know just how you feel taking that risk and not being sure you can hack it. You got this though. You’re going to be so glad you did it. 

Party-vi > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:54

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“a looooooong process”

9 months minimum. I’d tell you to ask me how I know, but then I’d have to kill...me. I think?  

dogisbadob > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:55

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Good luck

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:56

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I say think long term. If Company C seems like a better fit that will open more doors for you in the future (i.e. career advancement, and $$$) and will keep you engaged without going bored out of your mind, that is more important. Yes $18K and a week of vacation is a lot to consider...but unless you reeallly NEED that extra money seems like foregoing it would be the better long term decision.

Any chance you can reach out to Company C and tell them what you’re going through? Make it clear to them that you really, really want to work for them - but is there any way at least that they can throw in a few more vacation days for you, to make their offer more competitive?

I know depending on company, size, industry, etc. these things can’t really be changed but might be worth asking. The last company I worked for was very accommodating i n that way although they were a large (though private) company. My previous employer had a decent stock plan and gave me about 1 more week of vacation time (which I only would’ve advanced up to after a few years at the new company). In order to get me to sign they sweetened the annual bonus to more or less equal my stock plan, and got me those extra vacation days. Worth at least asking, if you have a decent rapport with the hiring manager. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 13:58

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Dang what a difficult decision. When it rains it pours no?
I used to work for a very large multi national firm and it had it’s plus and minus points. Overall I much prefer to work for a smaller company that allows me more freedom and access to upper management .

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 14:01

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Well, sounds like you already made your choice, and I think its the right one. I’m not generally one to walk away from money, but work that’s not challenging or interesting gets pretty old, pretty fast.

I’ll tell you a little story of my own - I graduated in 2013 amidst the Gov’t Shutdown and then Sequester. It was a horrible time to be looking for work in DC. Oh, and right after graduating I got married and my wife has a great job in DC so I’m tied to this area. Anyways, I’d had an offer that I accepted with a gov’t agency that they had to rescind on account of sequestration funding cuts . I spent almost a year doing construction work for my father while I looked for an engineering job. In that time I got one offer for a really boring sounding job, for less money than I was making when I was active duty in the Navy (which was... not much). Despite not having a real job and being newly married , I still turned it down because I just knew something better was around the corner for me. Well it took a few more months but I eventually got a job with a naval architecture firm that ended up being very good for me. I also stayed in contact with the gov’t agency I was originally going to work and after 3 or so years I left the first company and came to my current position. 

Mid Engine > DipodomysDeserti 11/07/2019 at 14:06

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I’ve worked in tech my entire career, the last time I was laid off I couldn’t find work for 2 years because I’m over 40. To bridge the gap I got my general contractor’s l icense and did handyman work for a living, then got a generous offer to re-join the tech world. Now I get job offers weekly, go figure.  I’d take job C but insist on more time off. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 14:41

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Sometimes, it’s worth the risk. Send Company B a thank-you letter to try to salvage that bridge in case it might be useful in the future.

This was the biggest challenge for me to overcome in your decision-making process: “plus another week or so of vacation”.

Good on you for choosing the less-safe thing that will potentially make your quality of life better over monetary gain. I took that risk a few years back (though not changing industries) and it ended up being better both for my mental well-being and financially.

Hope you’re also considering how fortunate you are (I do regularly...) - that $18k delta you’re forgoing is probably more than some here on OPPO pull in in a year. Speaking personally, sometimes I don’t really understand how I got here. Yeah, I worked hard in school (at times), and worked hard at work (at times), but more than anything, I just feel pretty damn lucky.

CompactLuxuryFan > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 14:49

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I still like those G iu liettas even though they’re objectively terrible. Same with the MiTo. Thank goodness I wasn’t of car buying age when they came out and now I live somewhere they’re not allowed.

Textured Soy Protein > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 14:52

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I made a similar choice this year.

In 2018 when I moved from WI to MD, I had 2 offers and took the one I liked less because they kept upping their offer until it was $5k more than the one I liked more. That job ended up being terrible and laid me off 5 months later. At least they gave me 2 months severance pay.

I worked as an independent consultant for about 6 months while looking for other jobs, and once again got 2 offers. Option A had higher potential earnings but was temp-to-perm, option B had better benefits including insanely good health insurance and was a regular full time employee position in a nice stable company, and better responsibilities for career development. I negotiated with option B to get them to raise their offer by a few grand. It still was lower than option A but was the right move.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 14:56

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I can’t offer advice on what the timeline is like to get a security clearance as a civilian these days, but in general I wouldn’t sweat the process. If your credit is good, you have a valid driver’s license without a big pattern of accidents or citations in the past , you haven’t been convicted of a crime and/or even arrested for anything particularly noteworthy and there i s no special reason the alphabet agencies would find you interesting, you’ll be fine.

For a secret clearance, they’re basically spot checking information on your application (making sure you residency timeline adds up and maybe verifying a thing or two on it, maybe verifying a thing or two in employment history, stuff like that ), verifying educational history, pulling driving history, pulling a credit check, looking at court records where you’ve lived, running a national agency search (seeing if the alphabet agencies are/ have ever been interested in you or know of any reason you might not be suitable for access to certain information ), pulling an NCIC triple I (your complete history within NCIC and any queries tied to your name/SSN) and checking state/local law enforcement databases for your records.

For a top secret and beyond clearances, they’ll do the above but with much more stringent verification of your history. They’ll contact your employers , references , neighbors and other folks you know and do detailed interviews with those people. They will ask them detailed information about your personal life and habits. What those people say and how they asses you matters greatly in the process. While they’ll contact folks you list as references, they’re only moderately interested in what they have and to say and will always ask them for names of other people that know you. Those secondary references are the ones a background investigator is really interested in talking to. The idea is that anyone listed as a reference is likely to say good things by default or they wouldn’t have been listed (and they’re expecting to be contacted) . The theory g o es those secondary references are more likely to still know you well enough to give detailed information, but far enough removed to be more likely to give more honest opinions (and they were not expecting to be contacted, and the investigator is not going to give them advance notice).

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/07/2019 at 14:57

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Hope you’re also considerin g how fortunate you are (I do regularly...) - that $18k delta you’re forgoing is probably more than some here on OPPO pull in in a year.

Yeah that is why I’m usually hesitant to talk about actual dollar figures... pretty much ever and I’m in the same boat. I do good work, but so much of it is circumstance, privilege , and luck.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Party-vi 11/07/2019 at 15:01

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Yeah I’ve been involved in the processes for a couple other people, and was impressed at how long it takes.  I guess this all goes to shit if I can’t get an interim clearance.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 15:08

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Similar to how I was hesitant to share when I bought my place out in the country, and built my shop, but at this point, OPPO’s like family, and I want to share the good stuff (and the bad stuff, sometimes).

Hoping the best for you, brother!

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 11/07/2019 at 15:28

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If you need the extra money badly, go with company B.

If you don’t, go with company C.